Elite Criminals and Network Enablers (ft. Leah McGrath Goodman) – Game Theory Today Podcast, S2, Ep7

welcome back this is the game theory today podcast i’m eric garland this is part two of our series with leah mcgrath goodman talking about her recent articles and films about child abuse networks and offshore banking on the isle of jersey the discussion of child abuse networks is very difficult but it’s in the news right now we’re dealing with congressman matt goetz right now who is accused of sex trafficking of minors across national borders those are crimes that carry a 30-year crisis prison penalty and he’s likely not to be the only one implicated it’s getting bigger all the time so we come back to explore more of our story that we got into with part one with lee mcgrath goodwin goodman and we’re going to be discussing why the broader public is finally ready to talk about these networks of child abuse lee has been at this story for 10 years and all sudden everything’s coming out we’re going to look at why we’re going to talk about what leah learned over a decade about how journalists can report on these kinds of stories without alienating the , 4 secondsaudience why the connections to jimmy savile case uh in england has opened up uh jersey’s decades-long , 13 secondsrole in this kind of thing and why in the united kingdom you often need to wait for people to die in order to tell their stories because of libel and , 22 secondsum such laws even even the states can sue journalists into silence after they’re dead uh so how do you get the the information , 31 secondsout how leah takes an audience from zero to ignorant that’s a critical first step and why investigating crimes , 39 secondsby elites doesn’t just expose criminals but entire institutions that support and obscure systematic abuses , 47 secondsum glad that we got such a response out of this in last week’s episode of the game through today podcast and uh we’re , 54 secondsdigging in the these are not fun stories but they are pretty necessary so enjoy part two with leah mcgrath goodman , 2 secondsso we’re back for a little bonus interview with liam mcgrath goodman talking more about , 9 secondsthe isle of jersey a trillion dollars here and there the queen of england and uh more of her research how are you doing i’m doing good , 18 secondsso we had um we had quite a a robust response to uh a story that’s you know kind of hard to get into involving an , 26 secondsisland that many people admitted um very proudly they did not i was actually impressed with the humility i don’t know where that is when we started talking , 34 secondsabout jersey um and uh you know some of the the material with the the abuse and all that uh can be hard to get into but we got a lot of , 42 secondsresponse out of that what was yours yeah i i do i i do think maybe we’re moving into a , 51 secondscultural moment where people are more open to talking about these issues whereas a decade ago over a decade ago , 58 secondswhen i first started looking at it there was a really big issue with that how to write about this how to report on it , 6 secondswithout immediately alienating anyone from being able to to listen so so a decade ago , 16 secondsyeah when i when i first started looking at jersey which was you know a little bit over a decade ago my first trip there was in 2007.

, 24 secondsokay so you know and you started writing about the happenings on the island and otola garen , 32 secondsin 11 or so 1011 somewhere around there i am not sure the very first article i , 39 secondspublished certainly by 2011 i was openly writing about it i think prior to that i was trying to not attract too much , 47 secondsattention to myself because the island was well known to not be open to answering questions and so the more , 55 secondsopenly you asked questions the more likely it would be that you would have trouble getting interviews and , 3 secondsand tracking information wow so things are things are opening up now , 11 secondswhy do you think the public is ready to hear this pretty rough story um that’s also very complex what you know what do you think’s changed since you’ve been doing , 20 secondsthis for a decade now well my biggest concern starting out back when you know we we saw , 27 secondswe talked a little bit about how ted heath the prime minister of great britain was accused of possibly abusing children on the island , 35 secondshe was also on the mainland i might add but in addition a big star at the bbc who is well known , 42 secondsto people in the united kingdom less so in america his name was jimmy savile he had a big tv show , 51 secondsum was much loved in the 70s and and did a lot of traveling throughout the british isles to great fanfare and , 59 secondsparades and he also traveled to jersey and he also visited hot delegation and was reportedly one of the abusers there , 7 secondsof children um all of that was percolating at the time i started looking at all of this and yet , 15 secondsthere was huge pushback and uh you know jimmy savile was still alive until 2011.

yeah when was his his , 22 secondsscandal that came out i mean everything really didn’t come out until after he died because there was a , 29 secondslot of again even though he was older and there wasn’t it’s really unclear why , 37 secondsso many of these people continue to be protected but right after he died then suddenly all these people started , 44 secondsto come forward and then there was an official investigation and in the uk often if somebody is not deceased , 53 secondsnothing’s going to come out nothing’s going to get done and even after they’re deceased that may also be the case we’ve seen situations where families the estate of that person will come forward and attack anybody who makes allegations so it’s a , 8 secondslot harder in england to sort of move the needle on reports and allegations of abuse by high-level people vips essentially and , 17 secondsthat’s why there’s been so many issues with um getting people to not just hear what’s happening and hear what’s being um , 25 secondsreported but also getting people from that point of it’s so hard to get people from zero to just ignorant right like you have to do , 35 secondsa lot and then then you try to give them the story but back when i started my biggest obstacle was , 42 secondshow will anyone possibly believe that this is happening you know how will you even get people from zero to , 49 secondsignorant um get get just get them to a place where they’re open to hearing the story let alone believe the story so i i found that process to , 59 secondsbe maybe the highest bar of all you know reporting it’s hard enough but even getting people to read a story about such a dark , 8 secondssubject can be very difficult so just so the non-british uh listeners might understand i mean you know jimmy , 16 secondssavile would it’d be roughly equivalent to finding out that can captain kangaroo or somebody beloved on sesame street , 24 secondswas a monster yeah i would be like a favorite human sesame street character maybe but but , 32 secondsmore than that someone who was friends with the president who was friends with the prime minister the queens like you , 39 secondsknow children who knew him and there’s just this huge kind of group of very powerful people in great britain who , 47 secondsliked him were photographed with him ted heath was photographed with him margaret thatcher was photographed with him and all of them smiling having a great time , 56 secondsand you know the royal family was known to to be involved in various things that he was also involved in and so he had , 3 secondsthat sort of stamp of approval from everyone you know he’s a great guy he loves children like how could this guy be , 11 secondsanything but above suspicion um my it was extremely hard to , 18 secondspenetrate um what was going on and to pierce that veil and not only that but when there were reports from various outlets that he had visited the , 27 secondschildren’s home in jersey when jimmy savile went he insisted that he never had even been there let alone abused anyone and it wasn’t , 35 secondsuntil after his death that a photograph surfaced much more prominently that showed that he was it was a photograph , 43 secondsliterally of him sitting in front of the children’s home with children all around him crowding him so that kind of did that , 51 secondslion but people tolerated those lies until after he died so this is you know to put it in context , 59 secondsthis isn’t just about you know looking at a single albeit monstrously industrial scale , 6 secondsyou know child abuse location or operation or even the two trillion dollars of , 14 secondsmoney flowing through the place which is more than enough to be a huge story but you’re talking about the the fabric the , 21 secondscultural and institutional um and authority fabric of a great nation slash empire , 30 secondsof the united kingdom that you know these are people that are directly connected to the prime minister in a country where , 38 secondsyou know and for americans who don’t understand how the british system works you know when you are elected prime minister you still have to go to the , 46 secondsqueen and ask her permission to form a government right yeah you know the monarch may not have um you know , 54 secondslawmaking abilities but you know she is you know uniquely uh uniquely powerful in in the uk so if , 2 secondsyour friends with the you know the royal family that’s not that’s not a light thing and , 9 secondsto expose that yes the royal family was consorting with some of the most monstrous humans on , 17 secondsearth um to get into that story you’re not just looking at the criminal acts , 24 secondsbut you’re looking at how an entire you know country and of course britain is more you know the united kingdom is is more , 31 secondscomplicated than that because of the empire because of the commonwealth because of their their old holdings and you know everything that goes into that , 39 secondsum what yeah yeah the british um you’re really you’re really talking about exposing some horrible things behind , 48 secondsyou know britishness i mean it’s probably no surprise that that takes people to warm up some time , 56 secondsyeah i think that i mean the concept of empire that we have in the united states and the concept of empire and great britain are very , 4 secondsdifferent you know they the monarchy in great britain still really does control how governments work on a lot of these , 13 secondsterritories like jersey which is a peculiar possession of the crown you know the queen really does have ultimate say over what happens way , 21 secondsbeyond what she has in places like britain where there’s sort of a ceremonial may i form a government your name and she says yes , 30 secondsyou know but she she famously is not supposed to get political in those situations however in her realm , 38 secondswhere she does have direct influence over the people running her territories are her peculiar possessions she has , 45 secondsdirect authority and it’s not it’s not a democracy in the sense of what we perceive to be a democracy where , 53 secondsthere are separations of powers and people are elected and things move along the line where if the electorate really doesn’t like something , 1 secondthey can effectively remove it they don’t have that option in some of these places and jersey is one of them the electorate is allowed to elect , 9 secondscertain people but not the people with the most power and so it is a very difficult situation and , 16 secondsand this this concept of the empire you know that shall not question it and even if there are you , 24 secondslook we all know if you’re a powerful person it’s only a matter of time before you take a photograph with someone thinking it’s just a fan or somebody who , 34 secondsadmires you and then it turns out to be the wrong person and you know we know that that can happen but we’re talking about something else we’re talking about , 42 secondsa pattern of behavior of embracing and giving a stamp of approval to people who are very well known to be the wrong , 50 secondssorts of people and what well known to be bad actors and still allowing them to have that stamp of approval which then , 57 secondsendangers others , 59 seconds[Music] , 1 secondyeah this is um you know something in the uh i know in the in the twitter world where people have been trying to unpack the trump-russia , 9 secondsum global corruption you know story of how the hell trump became president and they start learning , 16 secondsabout all these different characters um and you know you find pictures of this person with that person and uh speaking of somebody who trains intelligence , 24 secondsanalysts you know one of the things i try and remind the you know folks getting into this kind of thing is like hold on correlation and causation not , 31 secondsthe same thing by association not the same thing but this is different this is no the , 38 secondsqueen does run this this did happen on the watch of people she appointed and , 45 secondscontinued to support yeah and she was well aware of event that that’s her job is to come back to , 52 secondsher let her know what’s going on let her representatives know what’s going on at any time the queen did not have to keep knighting what she was doing and still , 1 seconddoes she’d have to keep knighting bailiffs on the island of jersey who were directly involved in the papering over of child abuse she could have said , 9 secondsright you know i’m going to have to draw a line on that one i don’t think i want to knight that person but we have seen her consistently knight , 17 secondspeople who went out of their way to not specifically got multiple reports of abusers who were powerful people and then decided not , 26 secondsto prosecute decided they don’t have private prosecution on the island of jersey they don’t even have a sex offenders register , 33 secondsso like how are regular people supposed to be protected when things don’t get addressed at any time the queen could have or her representatives decided , 42 secondsnot to reward that sort of behavior but she doesn’t do that and so she is not just complicit she is a participant in , 50 secondswhat’s happening on the island of jersey and i suspect if she’s you know i can speak mainly for the island because that’s the place i have my expertise but , 58 secondsmy understanding is she really falls short in a lot of her other areas of her realm and people are increasingly speaking out , 5 secondsyou know that’s what social social media has a lot of what the people call it the toilet of the internet but it’s also a place for , 13 secondspeople to speak openly about what’s happening things that have not been known for so long so it has been very helpful social media , 20 secondsreally has helped people around the world learn from people for example in jersey social media um activists in jersey are now on social , 29 secondsmedia and they’re able to say this is really happening you know we’re real people this is affecting us and we’re trying to , 36 secondsmake change but it’s not it’s not coming to us and a number of people in jersey have said to me for years the problems will not be , 44 secondssolved on island because it’s like a closed circuit system where anything that shouldn’t uh anything that threatens the system will be , 52 secondssubterfuged by the system and so a lot of them realize it’s only pressure from off island that will ever result , 59 secondsin the island finally looking at itself and maybe changing some of its systems for the better i mean that’s and that seems eminently , 8 secondssensible and very self-aware especially when you know people need to wrap well actually people need to , 15 secondspeople cannot wrap their head around the farce that is saying there’s two trillion dollars booked on five miles by , 23 secondsnine miles that means there isn’t because you know there means there’s a power looking over that , 32 secondsthat organization of basically accounting firms you know it’s not i mean there’s no reason for the isle of jersey , 40 secondsto have two trillion anything outside of you know perhaps individual bacteria or something right i mean , 48 secondsso who’s behind that and the answer is the city of london wall street and others you know you’re that second , 57 secondseconomy we talk about um and that means you know maybe you appoint some people to do certain things on jersey , 6 secondsyou know and maybe they’re appointed by the monarch or not but this is about the folks that are using , 14 secondsthat frankly that that farce that that you know illusion that you know this place doesn’t have to , 22 secondsreport its money and this place doesn’t have to you know uh you know be in touch with taxation agencies and , 30 secondsyou know moreover that there’s some connection between that and some serious criminality that is not just financial , 38 secondsum and at some point people need to not you know that’s a crime against humanity yeah two trillion dollars on a nine by , 47 secondsfive mile island is not just an accident of geography you know that was very much on purpose , 53 secondsand uh i think you’re totally right you know just to give a couple examples of what’s going on on the island just a couple , 1 secondweeks ago um the couple that i wrote about in a recent article an institutional investor who who discovered what they alleged to , 10 secondsbe widespread global money laundering from the island and wonderful wonderfully written for those who haven’t uh checked it out , 18 secondsabout them you know finding was it 360 000 documents on a squash court we got the numbers yeah it was , 24 seconds350 000 pages in over 300 bank boxes piling up the walls the the cops that i interviewed said they’d never seen , 34 secondsanything like it and across jurisdictions you know panama british virgin islands parts of canada parts of the u.s , 41 secondsall over jersey and europe and beyond you know russia was involved as well and yeah it i mean as i was writing this , 48 secondsarticle i couldn’t believe what i was writing yeah i you know sometimes while you’re writing you’re like oh my god i can’t , 55 secondseven believe this is real but while i reported it one of the things i wanted to mention and we’ll we’ll mention the title um it’s called the heiress the , 4 secondsqueen and the trillion dollar tax shelter and it’s an institutional investor went out a couple weeks ago we can link to it under when you post , 12 secondsthis i can link to it but that being said like i found that the police investigation into the document leak , 21 secondsit was called operation scarlet i had the original documents i had the authenticated documents from the police , 28 secondswhen i called them to ask questions the jersey police told me they had no reference to the case no reference number no reference to the , 35 secondscase i emailed them the documents they authenticated them and said but we just don’t have this on record , 43 secondsand this is how things go and jersey things just disappear this investigation was in 2015 and is only really coming , 50 secondsout now because those involved got frustrated that jersey financial services the regulators the courts and , 58 secondsthe police weren’t doing anything that’s why we’re all hearing about it now but what’s fascinating is the case has already disappeared the documents the , 6 seconds350 000 pages have been turned over to a law firm to put into a safe so no one can see them , 14 secondsthe only reason we have any access is because the couple that found them wisely scanned many of them so that we can read through , 23 secondsthem now thank goodness and then in addition i found that the couple is now being dragged through the courts in jersey not , 30 secondsto get to the bottom of the fraud but to silence them and if you read the court documents it specifically says they shall not pursue the fraud , 39 secondsand they shall not go any further and they have been fined by the court for contempt for continuing to try to get to the bottom of fraud related to their own , 48 secondsfunds their own family money as well as many other people who are affected by it and i was just like wow can we release the judgment so everyone , 56 secondscan see how ludicrous this is well the jersey court has decided to steal it so you can’t even see the judgment and that is quintessential , 4 secondsjersey if it’s something that looks like it’s enabling fraud you will not get to see that it exists if it’s an investigation of money , 12 secondslaundering the case disappears from the police records that is just quintessential jersey and that is not historic it’s , 20 secondshappening in the present day so you know it’ll seem like a left turn here but what facebook just said they , 28 secondslost like 533 million record you know user profiles or something and you know , 36 secondsyou know you find out oh that you know this bank got lost a zillion records and you know two billion yahoo emails and and whatnot at some point , 45 secondsthere is just you know so much compromising information out there on frauds and whatever else , 54 secondsthat this whole game of we’ll just have a court say it’s sealed because reasonable shazam that that doesn’t it’s like , 2 secondsokay that worked you know that worked before every single computer that you use for these transfers , 10 secondsand let’s say you’ve added uh cryptocurrencies and you know other types of uh digital transfers well each of those , 18 secondsleaves a log file and you just can’t disappear stuff the way you used to be able to at some point , 25 secondsyou know we you’ve just got so much hard evidence that can go in someone’s courtroom and it’s funny to follow some of the prosecutors at the southern district of , 34 secondsnew york current and or you know mostly past um some of the cats who’ve served with uh with preet bharara and others , 41 secondsand i saw them online joking about the the jurisdiction of sdny and the department of justice are like , 48 secondswe have jurisdiction for everything out to roughly neptune if we want because every financial transaction runs through , 56 secondsmanhattan at some point and if like if we see it go by we see one file go by we can declare we are the sovereign district we can do , 4 secondswe can declare we gonna sue you we gonna prosecute you um you know so you know maybe the jersey court can , 12 secondsgo shazam shubaly wow this doesn’t exist anymore but that’s exactly what they do but it’s looking dumber is my point it’s like , 20 secondsguys okay you’ve got a school that was an industrial rape factory on nazi tunnels you have two trillion dollars on five , 28 secondsmiles by nine miles and the queen something something what the [ __ ] all right are we are we done yet , 35 secondsare we done are we going to keep this up you know but they they this is part of the reason why they continue to do these things , 43 secondsjersey is an island right i think that’s crucial to their story because on the island of jersey which has about , 50 secondsa hundred thousand people living on it give or take they are very used to containing runaway stories containing uh reporting , 59 secondsthat is not friendly to their their agenda and they’re used to also you know smearing people or attacking people who , 7 secondsagain aren’t consistent with their agenda and the government has a very specific sort of tolerance level for what it wants reported about it so even , 16 secondswhen things do get out there’s this concept that has been nurtured for many years on the island after so many wars right they were , 23 secondsinvaded by the nazis they were invaded before that you know by the vikings the romans et cetera you can , 30 secondsgo way back in time but they have nurtured this concept of enemies of the island and they put quotes around it but when i first went there , 38 secondsone of the police officers who was then serving in parliament on the island which has its own parliament he looked out the window and was like oh , 47 secondsthat’s what enemies of the island say i was like who was that like you know the island is an island , 55 secondsbut you don’t have any enemies you’re not at war but there’s this concept of everyone band together let’s , 2 secondslet’s repel any outsidery type ideas even if they are about democracy or freedom of speech or a court system , 10 secondsthat’s accountable or separation of power other really newfangled ideas okay i can i can say for certain that my readership in general is really into , 19 secondsjustice and really doesn’t like you know dodgy corruption and and bad guys and generally are , 26 secondsreally educated and these people didn’t even know where the hell jersey was and were you know humble enough to say can someone point okay i admit i accept that , 35 secondsthis is a great story and very important where the [ __ ] is it so how can they be if the if if my justice-minded , 44 secondsyou know uh dogs of war are aren’t angry you know aren’t an enemy of the island i mean who who is i mean you know , 52 secondsmost people don’t know they exist so yeah no no one’s an enemy of the island and like earlier you were like maybe the island doesn’t have two , 59 secondstrolling anything except bacteria and i was thinking well you know see i could see them being hurt by that you know like bacteria like so we can , 8 secondssay two two trillion blades of grass instead of two trillion uh bacteria but like they there is a feeling of us against them , 16 secondsthat that not the ordinary folk the good folk of jersey believe in her and gender but the power structure will immediately , 23 secondskind of go toward that narrative as like sort of a go-to position of you know enemy of the island we have to , 31 secondsrepel this um they don’t care about us they don’t understand us there’s because it’s such a very deep culture going back thousands of years on the island there’s , 40 secondsa feeling of they don’t get our traditions they don’t get who we are they disrespect our heritage and that’s not at all true , 48 secondsbecause people like me for example it’s one of the things i love the most about jersey is it’s rich history its heritage you know it is a beautiful place with , 56 secondsreally amazing people with amazing stories that are in their own right worth celebrating and , 3 secondsmy my love of the island does connect directly with my outrage about some of the ways that these miscarriages of justice and deficits and the , 12 secondsdemocracy affect the people living there because i see what it could be right i see i see , 19 secondsthe the good side and knowing what’s happening to some of the people there it’s very painful if you actually care , 27 secondsabout the islands and it’s definitely like motivational for me as a journalist and you know it’s a tough story to keep reporting on , 36 secondsand it’s good that your listeners you know do care about justice because honestly it will be pressure from off island that , 44 secondschanges things it’s very clear it’s not going to be just on island you know there’s going to need to be a balance between off island , 52 secondspressure and outrage combined with people living there saying you know we really need to draw a lion this is getting out of hand but the government has become very kind of confident in its ability to control on island consensus , 8 secondsthey managed to persuade everybody to go along with reopening the children’s home where all this violence took place for decades reopening it as a youth hostel , 17 secondsand you don’t see people losing it over that in fact i’ve had numbers of people reach out to me defending saying well the , 25 secondsbuilding didn’t hurt anyone so let’s bring children back into the building even though horrible abuse and violence happen here going back to the , 33 secondsnazi regime continuously since then and let’s act like nothing happened and just bring more kids over here and i , 41 secondsjust you know you can use a building for many things you don’t have to bring children right back to the place of violence and , 48 secondsit’s hard to understand why a child would be comfortable with that but as the protectors of children i’m not sure how any parent could justify , 56 secondshaving their kids in a children’s former children’s home known for horrible abuse and and death for children , 4 secondsum going you know going from the nazi regime all the way till the children’s home closed in 1986 but , 12 secondsthen children continue to be abused there even after it closed you know it’s not a good place to keep bringing children it’s not appropriate to keep , 21 secondsbringing children there you can use the building for something else um there was a uk judge in 2017 , 28 secondswho headed up an inquiry into the child abuse in the government-run children’s homes on the island including hot delegation which is the one we’re , 36 secondstalking about here that’s now being used as a youth hostel and she said the home should be demolished because she felt that was her major recommendation for , 45 secondswhat to do was demolish the home turn the land into a memorial or a park or a place to reflect for those who , 53 secondsyou know who suffered and there was a huge upright it was a huge sort of circling of the wagons amongst the press on the island and different people involved in the government insisting the home not be demolished and children should be , 8 secondsbrought right back into it and today i get notes about well it’s raising money for charity so it’s okay , 15 secondsand again like people who live there don’t seem to grasp , 23 secondsthe totality of how serious this is somebody wrote to me and said well schools have violence too but you don’t , 31 secondsshut the school down you still let kids attend school you know lots of buildings have lots of things happen in them but i don’t think we can think of many , 39 secondsbuildings that have had this many things happen in it as hot delegate we’re talking many decades of this because i don’t know if you can just , 48 secondsnormalize that but they do do that they do do that over there and you will have islanders telling you why it’s okay , 59 secondsand you know i don’t think we i forget i don’t believe the people of newtown connecticut rebuilt sandy hook did they , 7 secondsand it’s not named the same you know if you had systemic government sponsor sponsored violence versus somebody invades the you know there are , 15 secondsvery many different ways violence can happen somewhere and so it’s not about you know six of one half dozen of the , 23 secondsother it’s more but a place that was from inception a place that children , 30 secondslong new was a place of violence and and much worse is this an appropriate place to keep insisting on bringing children and the , 39 secondsanswer is no under no circumstances is it appropriate um and it’s you know it’s hard when i have these , 46 secondsconversations with people on the island because they’ll be like well we’re involved now so how could you possibly think anything might happen you know , 54 secondsand you’re like you can’t stop something from happening you know abuser’s gonna abuse and i don’t know what would happen if this , 3 secondsisland had any further incidents in the building related to child abuse i mean there’s a certain point where if everybody knows that there’s abuse , 11 secondsthat’s gone on there and continues to bring children in at what point does that become like a wider culpability right , 19 secondsthat so many people decided not to object again um you know it makes us start looking , 26 secondsculturally acceptable as opposed to a few individuals a few bad people some high level people , 33 secondsmaking the wrong decisions here it starts to look like it’s becoming normalized and one of the concerns about , 39 secondssome of those cultural um some of those cultural situations that i observe as a journalist who’s not from , 47 secondsjersey in jersey is this constant push to normalize situations that are not normal it isn’t normal , 54 secondsto have violence and abuse in a building um perpetrated on children for decades and decades and decades with , 2 secondsreally no pause and then to say hey right we’re glad that we stopped that and we have an inquiry and we’re all done here okay , 10 secondslet’s bring some more children back in like it’s not okay it’s not appropriate and yet i don’t see editorials in the paper , 19 secondssaying this isn’t right and i don’t see big campaigns saying we shouldn’t do this right like there’s a tendency to just kind of get , 27 secondsground under the boot hill over there where people just are like right i can’t have to pick my battles i’m not going to pick this battle and so here we see something like a , 36 secondsyouth hostel reopening exactly in the footprint exactly in the building where all these horrific crimes against children happened , 43 secondsand you just have to ask yourself how is it we just went went through like a decade of soul searching and getting to the bottom of what happened , 51 secondsand you know the film that we just put out talking about this and the survivors and their stories and then we still are bringing children back , 59 secondsit’s to me as a journalist whose job is to just objectively look at things without any bias you have to say , 7 secondsi just can’t explain how that’s acceptable but there are many people on the island who will insist to you that it is acceptable , 17 secondsso you know i think when people envision an enabler of abuse you know there’s the , 26 secondspicture of somebody who’s picking up the phone to call their employers to make an excuse or cleaning up after them , 33 secondsbut literally but um in a complex system that involves um you know abuse , 41 secondsum particularly at the scale you know the ecosystem around it um , 48 secondsyou know being there and present and still showing up every day and not going hey we should not have a youth hostel , 56 secondshere or you know back when it was going on you know very actively hey um you know the giant rape factory up on the on the hill we gotta , 4 secondswe got to shut that down guys um you know at some point you know the silence is and you know , 13 secondsand and the support of all the things you love oh no this is a great place um you know that becomes the um the enabling i live in st louis , 22 secondscurrently and um i gotta say you know one of the things i’ve seen that’s very similar to this dynamic uh it reminds me , 30 secondsa lot of ferguson when when that went down in 2014 which was you know a a very unique situation we haven’t learned all the , 39 secondsall the parts of it yet at all um you know there’s a lot of just purely homegrown things that were just natively , 47 secondsorganically finally came to a head some were not at all um for example the ferguson city government took 1 million , 54 secondsout in court fines and um uh traffic tickets from the population of 17 000 people on the day , 1 secondmichael brown got shot uh it was three million that was a four that was 2010 to 2014.

they tripled in a little over , 9 secondsthree years um you know so that was gonna pop at some point um , 17 secondsbut when it was happening you know i remember going to my my local grocery store and seeing a humvee not the , 24 secondscommercialized version but an actual you know humvee with a turret on the back in the parking lot of our grocery store , 34 secondsand we only live 15 you know minutes away from uh from ferguson on the highway , 42 secondsum can be there very quickly it’s not so far away and you and i both have a vermont connection you know that 15 15 minutes away in vermont is you know your , 51 secondsneighbor you’re talking about the same high school right whereas here you’ve crossed 20 high schools or why not in that same uh in , 59 secondsthat same period of time but you know for me not being from here i was like this is right next door and i’m going there’s a , 7 secondshumvee in the parking lot and i’m looking at everybody you know getting their fruit and their breakfast cereal and stuff and i’m like , 15 secondshey did anyone notice the military equipment outside and the fact that you know you know this place that everybody here , 23 secondsknows does not look like it looked on the news um where you know basically yeah i could take disney world and you , 30 secondschuck some tear gas canisters in and you do it at night you get some orange lighting and it’ll look like [ __ ] sarajevo getting shelled during the war , 38 secondsi mean you know and that’s what happened to ferguson where is like you know you know people acted like it , 47 secondswas you know yugoslavia coming apart and it’s like just turn the camera to the left guys you know get rid of the the tear gas and you’ve got like the bike , 55 secondsshop and the in the brew pub um you know it is it is not a war zone um now it’s a different thing because you had this , 2 secondsthere you had the media trying to make it into something that it wasn’t but i was just thinking about the social dynamic of , 10 secondsyou know there are some really bad people here in st louis uh in the power structure who are doing some horrific things uh with justice , 19 secondsit’s really it’s hard right because you don’t want to a lot of people don’t know what’s going on right and , 27 secondsthey you know it’s there does need to be an ecosystem that’s friendly to things when they break down um because then those things wouldn’t , 35 secondshappen if the ecosystem was going to repel such things so my phone is fair they don’t know because they don’t want , 43 secondsto know they don’t want to know and then there’s that then but then there’s you know there’s so many gradations right the people who know nothing and have no idea , 52 secondsum just you and i both came from you know my other home is brattleboro vermont and you’re you came from rutland vermont and i can tell you i get it you know a small community people know each other everybody knows , 8 secondseach other if somebody came an outsider like me came in and said right you know we have a place called , 16 secondsthe retreat in brattleboro that’s celebrated in movies and all sorts of places you know there’s a lot of weird , 23 secondsscience fiction type things out there that like refer to the retreat in a cultural way as like a touchstone for an insane asylum , 31 secondsand it was it was for a while and it has a graveyard out there and has a giant tower that they made the , 38 secondsthe patients build that then they jumped off of and now is closed it’s still there but but then they started killing themselves , 46 secondsoff the tower they built you know and so it has its own weird dark history but if somebody came along who’s an outsider and said yeah this is globally from a , 54 secondsglobal perspective the most messed up place ever it just happens to be in your town it’s totally understandable that a local , 2 secondswould be like screw you my town’s fine this is like a lot of weird places lots of places have weird stuff , 10 secondsand i’m not hearing it and i get that feeling i get it and i understand that it would probably happen in my town in brattleboro if that came up and i don’t , 19 secondsknow you’re in rutland you tell me how you think people have responded personally you know i think rutland no sorry accident’s going to come out um , 27 secondsno let me hear the accident i want to hear it do charm i don’t know i don’t think so uh it’s like no one no one’s going to tell , 34 secondsyou know if people for people from outside are you know are like this is the most messed up thing we’ve ever heard we’re like welcome to rutland yeah dude , 43 secondswell or maybe you do that maybe you would also act like it was no big deal but i think the problem is is no one wants to hear , 50 secondsthat this very scary thing is in their backyard that’s that’s you know my very presence in jersey in some ways , 58 secondscan be an affront because i came from really far away saying i’ve never seen anything quite like this and , 6 secondsyou know those who are in the know understand why i’m saying that but there’s a lot of people on the island who are just really lovely people , 15 secondsjust living their lives and this sounds to their ears um offensive intrusive judgmental , 24 secondsand for the people you know i told you earlier about the person who reached out to me um about well hot delega in the , 31 secondschildren’s home can totally be a youth hostel what’s the big deal why can’t we make something positive out of something negative which is fair , 39 secondsenough right fair enough point but the problem is is there’s a certain line you have to draw at a certain point when a place is basically known to be the place , 48 secondsto go abuse children for decades it isn’t safe anymore to bring children there but people who are , 55 secondspart trying to to be involved in making it different they’re not going to want to hear that right and so it becomes a complicated , 3 secondsconversation with people who live there versus what people far away people maybe who are listening to this , 10 secondssay right i can tell you right now don’t put children there but if it’s close up people start to lose , 17 secondsthat perspective and so it is a tricky conversation as a journalist who’s visiting jersey on a regular basis it’s , 24 secondsa fine tricky tightrope for me to walk yeah i mean i was being jocular about uh , 32 secondswell in vermont but you know i think that’s because there’s so few illusions about the places noble or , 40 secondsyou know we got a long proud tradition we do at being generally recalcitrant um and there’s the general , 48 secondsi mean can i live in a place that’s known for recalcitrance because that’s just kind of amazing and fabulous , 55 secondsyeah it doesn’t feel that i mean rutland you can get a place they’ve got places to rent and roll and i guarantee you there’s real estate , 4 secondsgiving places practically away in rutland why do you think that is dude what do you think um but i think you know if we heard that , 11 secondsthere was you know if if we heard that 40 i mean there was a scandal there you , 20 secondsknow a few years back where i believe is the one of the highlight ranking officers in the in the police , 27 secondsdepartment um was harboring child sex abuse media on his computer and he was prosecuted and you know , 36 secondsscandal and i’m not gonna say that was well that was it was just an isolated incident , 43 secondswe don’t know how isolated it was but you know if we heard more we’d put more people in prison um is my understanding but that’s different , 51 secondsthan hearing that like 50 of the infrastructure of your community is more monstrous than you thought it’s , 59 secondsdifferent i mean we have sort of a daily grind of we’re all second cousins and you know you know there’s no one’s gonna get rich , 6 secondshere no one’s uh you know the the humility’s already dialed in um but you know if i found out that half , 15 secondsof my neighbors were you know you know were trafficking kids or something you know it would be it’d be pretty tough um , 23 secondsbut people in jersey are also very proud again small island but it’s like its own country you know family history is going back thousands of years and , 32 secondsum no they don’t take kindly to being second guessed or they might feel their intelligence is being insulted if you tell them you understand , 40 secondssomething that they don’t about their own island and i very much sympathize with that attitude , 48 secondsi i had to really put aside my own journalistic ego and you know i had to change myself in order , 56 secondsto approach jersey because jersey’s kind of like a souffle like if you throw it in the oven try to make it fast it’ll collapse on you you know you will , 4 secondschange the you will change the object by observing it too much and so you really do want if you’re a , 12 secondsjournalist who’s genuinely trying to do writing about a place without disturbing it more than you need to , 19 secondsit’s a tricky it’s very tricky it’s not easy and you want to be really respectful of their heritage and identity and history , 28 secondsand feeling but then you also are dealing with a culture that may have an ecosystem that may have , 36 secondsallowed for some of this to go on for too long and you know there are quite a few like quote unquote woke people on the island , 43 secondswho are very able to understand the two polarities right but that’s not everyone and there’s a lot of very good people who are just trying to , 52 secondsdo good things who you know you might end up offending even though you don’t want to because , 1 secondof your job as a journalist to look at things in a different way so it’s hard it’s challenging that’s all , 8 secondsi want to say about that but it’s challenging and even when you feel very respectful it can still be hard , 16 secondsyou know there’s there’s some ugly work to do because at some point you gotta you go yeah well you got a lot of child , 23 secondsrape and you got two trillion no one’s got a hold of so what are we gonna do here and you know it gets a little indelicate and they’re , 30 secondsyou know i think it’s admirable that you really see the humanity and and the people that these aren’t just the cast of characters in a um , 38 secondsuh you know some story about financial corruption these are real human beings with a real you know unique culture and and , 46 secondswho need to you know maybe not have a [ __ ] youth hostel on you know the you know the rape factory you know , 55 secondsum that’s it that’s an interesting shorthand i mean at some point there’s i can see i could see them being very upset with that , 2 secondsshorthand but i i do understand what you’re saying because for a long time that was it was a magnet for that and i , 10 secondsfear because of the nature of a lot of these crimes you know this recidivism rate for pedophiles is higher than almost any other crime i think glass eye check was , 18 secondsthe highest and makes sense there’s real fear about you know the survivors i’ve interviewed none of , 27 secondsthem have said oh right i think it’s great it’s the youth hostile they’re all really upset about that and those who were brought there over and , 35 secondsover again you know they know there’s an attachment to the location of a location as a place for this sort of , 43 secondsactivity and so they certainly don’t feel they don’t feel better knowing that maybe some well-meaning people are , 50 secondstrying to create something positive that their attitude is this place just can’t be a place for children you know anything but that and , 59 secondsit’s it’s a very it’s you know again open and shut in my eyes like of course it should never be used for children ever again , 7 secondsbut people on the island will debate this as though it’s a reasonable debate and it’s just a good example of how the , 14 secondsculture and how the the hierarchy on the island will manage cultural debates , 21 secondsand civic debates in such a way that that they will sort of stack the deck in , 28 secondsfavor of whatever it is they think should be done and one of the trends i see on the island and i see this everywhere i see corruption is , 36 secondsthey’ll find like high-level activists or people who are known to be you know for example friends of children , 43 secondson the island or very big children’s rights activists or they’ll they’ll ally themselves oh why don’t we give you a job doing this thing , 53 secondsor why don’t we hire you for that thing or you know we’ll make you an important person in this realm or that realm , 1 secondto get them on board with something they want to do for example opening a delegation as a youth hostel you know directly involving activists in doing , 10 secondsthat right and those activists are thinking this is a compliment and this is a prestige marker but unfortunately , 18 secondsit’s part of the plan is to you know if they can’t take you down what they’ll do is try to flatter you which is interesting i’ve noticed in jersey the first thing they’ll do is try to take , 26 secondsyou down but then if they can’t they will try to flatter you and that often does work and it’s very potent , 33 secondsbecause the person’s like oh we’re now all going to be friends we have a shared agenda but actually no you’re still following their agenda , 42 secondsthey’re just bringing you on board and you just negotiate their their their cost up yeah yeah but i mean i would say those , 51 secondswho i value the most in my research that’s how they were gotten in the end that’s how they were captured in the end somebody gave them a job somebody gave them some prestige they gave them a brag or some claim to something that would make them feel aggrandized , 8 secondsand as a result they became neutralized it’s interesting i think that’s actually that dynamic’s gone on a lot of places um in a lot of a , 17 secondslot of places it’s a very smart it’s a very smart play in the playbook it is a very smart place you know it’s a good way to get somebody who’s , 25 secondssmart and various and thus can analyze something and can be skeptical and i see what you guys are up to and you know , 32 secondsyou know the smart play is like well they’re just not getting their cut and they get their cut they’re like well it’s not that bad i mean not if it’s taking care of a great guy like me , 41 secondsright yeah i think what what really happened in the kind of the trump era was like we got the most rapacious , 48 secondsinsane criminals in a place where you know some of them were really you know visited with this bizarre , 57 secondsworld view of like you know we’re going to be transhumanists and what maybe maybe global warming won’t be so bad if uh you know two or three billion people , 6 secondsdie from a pandemic i mean there’s some on the top of the social heat there’s some crazy people who are looking to you know ride out the uh , 13 secondsthe the apocalypse in their little hole in new zealand or whatnot and those people are like all for me and , 20 secondsyou can all die and uh i don’t have to pay no we got you know facebook and we’ve got um social media , 28 secondsyou know control stuff and we can make elections go the way we want we don’t have to pay any of you off so go [ __ ] yourselves you know smart people and i , 37 secondswas like what are they doing well they’re taking all their money and going home and i think that just opened up enough people you know i’m not saying that the people , 45 secondsthat are all the people that are you know are exposing um you know the corruption uh which is an amazing historical moment right now , 54 secondsyou know wouldn’t you know if they had been paid off but i think some of them would have been like this is okay but you know they just you know the , 3 secondsum you know so you got to talk to people up and down the you know the the social hierarchy no matter where you’re at um to understand , 10 secondswhat the stories are it’s like you know working people they’ve been getting screwed constantly and you know more intensely since the , 17 seconds70s and 80s and you know this is why this is one of the reasons that trump ended up prevailing in places they didn’t think they would because they’re , 25 secondsjust enough people you know and then a lot of people you know read my twitter i hear my stuff elsewhere and think that i’m a sort of leftist partisan in some , 34 secondsfashion when it’s that’s not true um you know a lot of the people that voted trump in were obama voters in some of these , 42 secondsstates and that’s hard for people to swallow but it’s like no there’s you know places in these towns you know that are real places in , 50 secondsin ohio and illinois and you know vermont new hampshire maine and places that are like no i get screwed by , 59 secondsdemocrats i get screwed by republicans you know maybe if you smart asses with your master’s degree , 6 secondsget scared maybe you’ll do something different that was the thought behind a lot of it and it was they don’t i think there was , 14 secondsnot enough understanding of what would be like to give security clearances to mobsters from queens but that’s not their response i mean , 22 secondsi’m not letting them off the hook entirely for giving us trump but it’s not they’re not responsible for thinking , 29 secondsabout you know those implications the fact is you know we some of us were standing by , 36 secondsum even you know there are people who are plenty progressive minded and do want fairness for folks but , 44 secondsthere are plenty of people in in the intellectual set who were not up in arms about how completely , 52 secondsscrewed regular you know people were in australia france germany america canada and you know finally uh you know you know we had this we had this outcome and uh maybe we’re lucky that it didn’t , 9 secondsyou know it it scared you know curious intellectuals enough to uh start digging out the the offshore you , 18 secondsknow it’s amazing stuff that i used to do 10 15 years ago as part of my working intelligence you know it’s just crazy from for me , 26 secondsyou know to be doing frankly to be doing a podcast about offshore banking and also talk about you know the the role of hostile foreign , 34 secondsintelligence services or whatnot and having people go you know have a native sense of wait a minute what’s happening in that country that sounds sounds very criminy , 42 secondsbut you know next up a podcast about you know money offshore in jersey it’s like holy crap like what happened here and it’s like , 50 secondsall these people started getting you know curious about how stuff really works because the whole system started biting all of us , 58 secondsuh yeah and you were talking about how you’re you know a lot of your listeners like as you said very humbly said what is jersey i don’t know what jersey is if you go to , 7 secondsan atlas and you’re like you like look at all regions in europe there’s no jersey and if you look under uk there’s no jersey and there’s like , 15 secondsyou’re like where is it then like if it’s not affiliated with anything it’s not affiliated with europe it’s not affiliated with france it used to be , 23 secondspart of the land bridge between great britain and europe so it’s this broken piece it’s been there forever and , 30 secondsyou know has this really ancient history but it’s not it’s it is really autonomous it has its own parliament its , 37 secondsown treasury it has its own my favorite thing about jersey its own telecom company , 44 secondsand postal system which means it’s not unusual for your mail to get screwed around where in my case i had every single item , 52 secondsi tried to send to my home from jersey was diverted to germany opened and then sent to all a number of places before it , 1 secondfinally arrived to my house and we’ve been razor bladed over and over again and re-taped yep yes , 8 secondsum and you know of course when i opened it there was like one little notice at the bottom and it said your packages have been opened for the , 16 secondsfollowing reasons yeah i’m not kidding yeah i saw i noticed i noticed you razor bladed them they’ve been open for the , 23 secondsfollowing reasons and then there was a little list we wanted and it was like it was basically like it said it said uh toxin , 31 secondsum you know contraband like there’s little lists at the bottom it just said other and that was , 41 secondsmeaning your person of interest i had a inside person who was able to , 51 secondsand he was like look you’re a person of interest you’re never going to find out what’s going on but they diverted your packages to germany they used to have a relationship with germany in the aftermath of world war ii nazi regime long island i have a question germany kind of does a lot of extra stuff i’ve noticed from my own , 8 secondsexperiences having my stuff diverted to germany east germany or west germany i’m just curious oh gosh i don’t know i , 16 secondsdon’t know it just said germany it’s a good question maybe someone i’m sure someone on the island knows , 24 secondsis it dresden it might be is it leipzig because you’re really funny no i don’t know um but you your point about where is jersey , 33 secondsit’s true because jersey as you noted in the introduction to your initial podcast on this subject has done a wonderful job of flying under the , 41 secondsradar and being that really great place to hide your money that no one knows about they don’t even know how to find it on the map that’s fabulous it’s , 50 secondsperfect but the queen protects you and crown officers are in charge not a real democracy and , 58 secondsthis is all good you know what they’ll say on the island of jersey is hey the great thing about jersey is you don’t have to worry about the prime , 5 secondsminister getting a vote of no confidence and the entire political system changing immediately we don’t have that here um they don’t even have political , 13 secondsparties their their parliament is unicameral and dissent is strongly discouraged what is , 20 secondsencouraged is rubber stamping legislation without question and that is why lots of people think that jersey’s a , 28 secondsgreat place to leave her money because they think it’s a place of absolute certainty when it comes to political control this sort of like you know form your , 36 secondscorporation in delaware because of the the stable corporate laws yeah and in jersey they’re not selling , 45 secondstax sheltering they’re selling the law they are amazingly good at creating law , 52 secondsand court decisions and regulation around your personal tailored needs and if you’re if you have if you’re , 59 secondsbringing enough money to the island you know the court can show you how they conceal documents when somebody comes out against you , 8 secondsthat document doesn’t exist somebody comes at you with a police investigation that police investigation doesn’t exist oh we have no idea what you’re talking , 16 secondsabout i reached out to the regulators about the um the 350 000 pages with the trust company and the alleged , 24 secondsmoney laundering and the financial regulator said well it’s a civil situation so we don’t , 32 secondsget involved and then they also wrote it’s a criminal situation so that’s up to the police and you’re like what is it i mean does , 40 secondsthe regulator actually do anything like criminal doesn’t matter fraud apparently seems to go by the board so , 49 secondswhat does a regulator do i mean i i got some excuses on a forum letter email which clearly had been sent , 56 secondsto other journalists but you know what is the regulator for if it’s not regulating things like making , 3 secondssure there isn’t money laundering indeed but they’re selling they’re selling law as a hell of a thing i mean that’s , 11 secondsthey’re selling law malleability um in fact one of the highest level lawyers on the island i found an old video , 19 secondshe was talking about growing up being a young lawyer on the island of jersey and he said i learned our our laws were not , 26 secondssophisticated enough and he said so what i learned is if there’s no law for something you make it up and then you chuckle , 34 secondsyou make it up and i thought wow that’s amazing he’s saying that now in his like older years that he would admit that , 43 secondsyou know but you know in it if if that were a township which five by nine i mean that’s not even a particularly large , 50 secondsplace in vermont you know right they’d do that all day long the difference is , 57 secondsthey don’t have two trillion dollars yeah the two trillion dollars is sort of a game changer that’s kind of a thing , 1 minute, 5 secondsright yeah it is a lot of there’s a lot of people with a lot of fingers and a lot of pies when , 1 minute, 12 secondsyou have two trillion dollars a scuttany vermont but with two trillion oh my god can you imagine i mean right , 1 minute, 21 secondsthat’s terrifying don’t tell scotty because i might do it wallingford vermont with two trillion dollars , 1 minute, 30 secondsdon’t tell us don’t tell wallingford either well you know okay if we’re gonna if , 1 minute, 37 secondswe’re gonna say this we have to say one more thing i don’t want to make this much longer but you do know that vermont is the center , 1 minute, 44 secondsof like insane amounts of offshore industry when it comes to insurance right the i mean the captive insurance industry , 1 minute, 53 secondsyeah it’s fascinating like if you if you go to like a conference in london they’re like vermont is here everybody , 1 minute, 59 secondslike they’re super excited and it’s so funny because you’re like vermont i didn’t even think vermont had like , 2 minutes, 7 secondsskin in any real game but that’s like the big game they have skin in yup i know where those offices are in , 2 minutes, 15 secondsburlington too it’s fascinating you know why yeah because i’ve been to the offshore leaks database and you go you know for you kids playing at home uh go to the office , 2 minutes, 24 secondsrelease database and just start putting in zip codes around you where’s the center of the offshore captive insurance industry in vermont i , 2 minutes, 33 secondslove that it’s quote unquote offshore you know burlington vermont but like is there a address that has , 2 minutes, 40 secondslike all the offices in it with like 8 000 phones ringing off the hook like in that kind of weird tux shelter style um , 2 minutes, 48 secondspossibly i wouldn’t be shocked if there was i’m i think it’s off winooski have i’m going to have to check it i think i know where it is i think i don’t know , 2 minutes, 56 secondswhat law firms are involved i don’t want to you know i don’t want to libel no one but i’m pretty you know like look nothing in , 3 minutes, 3 secondsvermont is that is that um that big but it can be just so funny they’re like london , 3 minutes, 11 secondssome random place in vermont it’s just really funny why oh yeah i just want to make it clear that i don’t i’m not throwing stones in , 3 minutes, 20 secondsa glass house like i fully understand that these weird holes exist in many places um i try to not , 3 minutes, 28 secondsi try to remember that the child abuse quotient is is certainly like that makes you kind of head and , 3 minutes, 35 secondsshoulders above the rest however these sorts of these sorts of situations exist in a lot of unlikely places including vermont i , 3 minutes, 43 secondsmean it’s about the rule of law exactly you know and on the vermont side you know something a lot of people don’t know i’d have to get the the exact , 3 minutes, 52 secondsstatistics but you know i was i was told that you know um like an unnatural amount of i forget if it does , 3 minutes, 59 secondsthe sinaloa cartel or the uh jaliscos in mexico like some , 4 minutes, 7 secondsyou know unfathomable amount of their firearms came through vermont because we have no , 4 minutes, 14 secondsfirearms laws basically and um everyone’s armed and you know you think you know and my my conceit as a , 4 minutes, 21 secondsvermonter for for years as well you know don’t we don’t need the same laws everyone else because you know we’re not shooting each other in the ass like you , 4 minutes, 29 secondsknow la or chicago or new york or whatever so we have different laws but here’s the thing yeah that’s right that does work out for maine it does work out from vermont , 4 minutes, 38 secondsbut if you if it’s so easy to get these things it’s easy to get them in and out too and now you get stuff trafficked and so , 4 minutes, 46 secondsyour little you know it took me a while to get my to get my head around is you know that which serves us locally here , 4 minutes, 54 secondsum because you know we’re armed more than freaking afghanistan and yeah and we have the lowest crime in america but that doesn’t mean that we’re , 5 minutes, 2 secondsnot giving weapons to killers and so absolutely it’s totally true we’re all interconnected and by the way i might add , 5 minutes, 10 secondsthe things i find very sad but also not surprising about vermont knowing how vermonters are even though we don’t have this horrible , 5 minutes, 18 secondsgun violence right um with people showing up and i mean we have had some incidents but we don’t have this high level of , 5 minutes, 26 secondsincidents per free for all firearms situation which we have in vermont is this kind of free-for-all firearm situation but we do have this , 5 minutes, 35 secondsvery high level of suicide and so you’re like oh for all the guns we have instead of shooting other people people are more likely to , 5 minutes, 42 secondsshoot themselves which is so sad and makes you wonder what’s going on with the overall mentality of the state that , 5 minutes, 50 secondsthat would be more likely winter is winter is eight and a half months and your income will never get above twenty seven thousand dollars a year most , 5 minutes, 59 secondslikely so it’s already ever just because of the winner i mean been like maybe i’ve never felt like that but maybe , 6 minutes, 8 secondsmaybe some people do i mean it is a pretty long winter you should not live in vermont if you’re not okay with yourself that’s for sure because those nights are dark , 6 minutes, 16 secondsthey are dark you see you you got the right attitude so i i don’t know how to wrap this up , 6 minutes, 25 secondsother than to say for everyone listening please please watch jersey please be a friend of jersey it’s a wonderful place , 6 minutes, 32 secondswith really wonderful people but their structure and system is is something that you know for people on the outside , 6 minutes, 40 secondsyou know any way that people can occasionally opine on you know not being just um , 6 minutes, 49 secondsnot supportive of the structure and supportive of the people because the system is really the problem over there the people are actually very lovely , 6 minutes, 57 secondssome of the higher level people of course are incentivized to keep the system the way it is but you know it’s not going to be there , 7 minutes, 4 secondsforever right the world marches on um people age out of these things but it’s the system really to help , 7 minutes, 12 secondsoffshore industry but not necessarily help people there and i mean i just want to be really clear in the 10 years i’ve covered jersey , 7 minutes, 21 secondsmultiple members of parliament who stood up to defend child abuse victims lost their jobs lost their houses were forced into bankruptcy by the government , 7 minutes, 30 secondson really minor charges stewart seavery’s house the health minister yeah was raided he was , 7 minutes, 37 secondshe was his whole life was turned upside down because he didn’t update his driver’s license or his registration like on time they used that as like a , 7 minutes, 46 secondsreason to go for it um another couple that were both members of parliament pushing for child abuse right , 7 minutes, 53 secondssorry child abuse victims rights they were they were um bankrupted because the local , 8 minutes, 1 secondand only newspaper on the island kept smearing them over and over again they finally sued the paper and everyone piled on and like drove them into , 8 minutes, 9 secondsbankruptcy the court tried to fine them for just bringing the case and i mean you see this time after time the police officer suspended the police officers , 8 minutes, 17 secondsdriven off the island it’s just not a good situation people don’t feel it’s safe you know if your health minister if you’re a member of , 8 minutes, 26 secondsparliament if your chief of police all get driven away what chance do you have somebody who’s a resident who just wants , 8 minutes, 34 secondsto see things go better like what chance do you have of not also having something terrible happen and i’ve had people come , 8 minutes, 42 secondsto me and say my my assets were stripped from me my house was taken you know i i get calls from the police oh we need to come in and check some , 8 minutes, 50 secondsthings out just because they spoke about a meeting and it’s really that bad people who’ve lost their jobs or their boss is like we can’t have somebody who’s political in , 8 minutes, 58 secondsthis environment you have to go you know it’s just really that bad for a lot of people so please keep an eye on jersey and please , 9 minutes, 6 secondskeep jersey in your heart because it’s it’s a wonderful place with wonderful people and it’s not a good situation that that , 9 minutes, 14 secondssystem and that structure is not a good situation well perhaps we’ll all be a friend of the truth and we’ll see where it takes us , 9 minutes, 22 secondsexcellent thanks leah